I don't, I just seem to recall that RvB makes up a good percentage of the kills in high sec.

Just look at the map and "ships killed in 24h". Im not telling that is largest, but larges CONSTANT battleground.

You just provided the proof yourself that more ships are lost in High Sec than in Null Sec. Sure, they aren't all PvP kills, but they are still lost ships. And some of them far more expensive due to high sec bling.

Well, from the looks of things, the tutorials are killing quite a few players

Because Null never uses frigates for any reason, certainly not Cyno's.....

Anyway, if you want to look at the statistics... High Sec has a higher concentration of PvP kills per system. Since Null is much more spread out.

So the statistics don't support claiming no significant PvP happens in high sec.

So all these people who go pop... are asleep and unaware?

You must be joking. The majority of illegal isk in EvE comes from nullsec, and null is where most isk sellers are based. Many nullsec alliances are funded by at least renting space to RMT operations if not operating bots themselves.

That's more or less what we're trying to find out right? It would only be for that half hour period, but then all data is just a snap shot in time anyway. 'Guesswork' in this kind of form has been used regularly in the scientific community, and can be fairly accurate with smart guestimators. Enrico Fermi comes to mind with the drake equation and his 'Fermi' estimates.

See, I don't buy the old line that everyone in high sec is getting ganked or dying to rats.

Yet, most highsec players are not grinding for infinite isk. But just for one reason or another not interested in the other area's of space in a serious way at this point in time.

Think about it. EVE is a niche product and is one of the most unforgiving hardcore games out there.

The biggest fleets of bots i've ever seen were in null. The total lack of so-called bot hunters there points to the disingenous nature of the pinheads who want to hit non-combat ships in hisec.
Mining and belt ratting bots are and will be safe from your terrible ideas. All of them.

Oh sure. I was meaning those comments are relevant to the whole isk faucets are causing inflation arguments people like to spout off about. When the latest comments he made actually show the average player has less isk, not more.

I think a fairer statement would be that the majority of Eve players are in Empire space compared to other areas of New Eden.

CCP produced population distribution figures in their Q3 2010 QEN released in April 2011. Based on those figures (QEN Q3 2010 - page 13) Empire was home to 86.5% of the population, followed by Nullsec at 11%, whilst Wormhole dwellers occupied the last 2.5%.

I would go even further. I suspect that the majority of this minority is not coming to the forums to complain about anything (sorry Pipa and Tippia, no hard numbers). Most "only plays in high sec" players either don't frequent the forums or are just as fed up with people complaining and begging for changes to game mechanics as those people who classify themselves as null and lo-sec players.

Most of us high sec players like the game exactly as it is. Most of us don't want 100% safety. We also don't want a lawless suckfest but we understand what this game is and adapt and pilot our ships accordingly.

If you actually played the game you would know about the hundreds of changes CCP has made to the game that inhibited and hindered most facets of hisec.

And by "nerfing" HS, what effect does that have on low and null sec players using those alts in HS to make money?

I think I get where you're coming from but what is the end result? What is the vision? I guess I would like to know the specifics of how this would be done and to what end?

And where is the balance point for that? At what point does the income differential actually overcome the desire for relative safety and resulting reduction of effort?

So the idea is to nerf HS because Null sucks? I thought that was where all the awesome stuff comes from. T2 BPOs and crazy profitable ore and such.

I get it! There is too much carrot and not enough stick in HS. I can fly missions all day long and rarely fear for getting my ship blown up. But the connection that I'm still not seeing is why nerfing HS helps anyone. Nerfing HS does not change the fact that Null sucks ISK-wise and no amount of changing HS alone is going to make Null suck any less in that regard.

I'm not sure this is completely accurate.

I obviously can't speak for everyone in HS but part of the reason I have no desire to head over to Null has little to do with making money.

What happens when we find that your hypothesis is wrong, and what drives null sec pilots to make ISK in hi sec is the AFK safety, knowing full well that the potential income in null sec is an order of magnitude higher but requires them to be at-keyboard? What about the players to care bear it up in hi sec to avoid CTAs?

Would a reduction in the numbers of people in hi sec by players leaving the game be a "win" or "lose" outcome for you?

Despite CCP continually pointing out that the greatest ISK faucets are null sec anomalies? This is what led to the anomaly nerf of 2011 (announced while FanFest was in full swing).

Commute? Do you even play the game? Why would you commute from null sec to hi sec when you can use alts or jump clones to travel instantaneously?

Commuting is regular travel between one's place of residence and place of work or full-time study.

And as far as people in Nullsec making more money - how? If all you're doing is lowering rewards or adding risk in HS, that does not equal an increase in income in Null. If you want to make more money in Null - lobby to buff Null income. Or are you talking income relative to HS? In which case the question becomes why is important to nerf this part of the game, not for the benefit of anyone, but just because?

Welcome to General Discussion. Home of the ideological forever-war.

I am not saying that there are more botters in null than in high, but to say it doesn't go on is a little naive, to say the least.

So what ?

Regular hi-sec players can hardly be blamed for those who are cheating CPP and indeed the rest of us.

That most botting happens in hi-sec does not mean that it is hi-sec players doing the botting, for all we know it could be lo-sec and null-sec players botting in hi-sec.

Wrecking hi-sec won't fix nullsec.

Hi-sec needs some rebalancing in areas like industry, but the aim of any change to a game should be to make it better not worse.

Although i agree that hisec manufacturing costs should be higher than manufacturing costs in player owned outposts (so nullsec industrials could compensate higher isk costs for transportation and logistics), i dont understand why do you want to reduce manufacturng slots in hisec... Its overcrowded here already. Reducing manufacturing slots would just bottleneck offers (while demand stays same) and prices would skyrocket again... its against the logic

Except you aren't punished any more. Not with hundreds of slots with bonuses to certain types of construction. You just won't be satisfied till high sec can't produce anything anywhere near the price null can. Nothing to do with entitlement other than yours. You believe you are entitled to the best at everything and everyone else gets the dregs. Someone else has something EQUAL and you scream. Because the costs for the industrialist don't include the outposts.

No, I stand by what I said: the possibility to have one's own infrastructure, even as a group of people, and to do all the manufacturing process is a big incentive to many so inclined people, by virtue of simply doing things by themselves rather than buying things to NPC/other groups of players.

The question of why they don't go in nullsec do just that should be asked, and all fingers not immediatly pointed at highsec.
It does not mean highsec does not deserve some fingerpointing, but probably not as much as nullseccers usualy do.

Then ask yourself a question. Why did you joined nullsec aliance in the first place? To make industry somewhere in a remote star system far far away from well supplied trade hubs of New Eden and then btching in GD that it is inefficient?

Nullsec industry is about supplying your alliance corpmates so they dont need to travel and haul ships and modules from remote trade hubs It is not about your personal profits. Of course it is more difficult. You don't have well stocked marked near you. But thats not a problem of game mechanics.

EXACTLY. Nullsec industry WILL NEVER BE SO EASY AS IN HISEC as far as hisec will be main trade hub. You can buff nullsec and nerf hisec as much as you want. This will never change. Hisec is industrial superpower. Deal with it.

I am by no means the most knowledgeable person in game. That being said, can it be said that W-Space is as profitable as it is because they have something that no other space has? Sleeper tech?

But now we put this "80% of all bots" percentage into the "89% of eve playerbase live/work in highsec" scheme and it says ..... exactly ... nothing. Statistics just say what you want to see. The most botting activity is where most people live? surprise, surprise.

And this wasnt to the only point mentioned.

Production costs? -- Then just do your production in HS.
Logistics costs? -- Do your production where those selling materials and those buying finished goods are - in HS
Capital Investment costs? -- This is a choice.

What you're asking for is a separate shard. You want to be able to completely cut yourself off from Empire and never have to set foot there again?

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf said 11% Nullsec. CCP wouldnt be surprised by this number i guess. They provided it.

But i admit that i forgot the low/wh numbers and just tallied up. search and replace 89 with 80%.

May i ask why?

However forcing them to PvP is not likely to encourage more than the occasional person to stay longer.